bruce725
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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2010 12:55:05 AM
As I posted earlier, our personal forgiveness and God’s forgiveness have differences. The Lord’s Prayer teaches that we are to ask for God’s forgiveness regularly, just as we are regularly to forgive others who have sinned against us. But human nature wars against this. As Paul said:
"So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me." - Romans 7:21 (NIV)
Like Paul, we must know that of our own strength, we are powerless to do the right thing. But as Christians who possess the Holy Spirit, when we rely on His power, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us
"I can do everything through him who gives me strength." - Philippians 4:13 (NIV)
From my way of thinking, forgiveness does not yield power, forgiveness is power. It gives you control, it does not yield control.
[Edited by: bruce725 at 9/1/2010 12:56:50 AM EST]
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mamaberyl
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 11:19:26 PM
The thing about forgiveness especially when I am the one doing the forgiving is that it has control over me.
It has control over me;not them.
It ruins my witness; not theirs.
I am agitated in their presence; not them in mine.
It bothers me;not them.
It makes me misreable;not them.
I can say all of this because it was happening to me, not the other person.
Honestly I don't think it has ever bothered her.
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trinuclear
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:57:15 PM
This is LONG I know, but well worth the read & study for conflict resolution and seeking Biblical forgiveness.....This is not mine, I picked it up in a class at seminary and it comes from the book: The Peacemakers: A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict , by Ken Sande (I highly recommend this to all Christians)
***************
Whenever you are involved in a conflict, you many apply the four basic principles of peacemaking by asking yourself these questions:
GLORIFY GOD
**How can I please and honor the Lord in this situation?
GET THE LOG OUT OF YOUR EYE
**How have I contributed to this conflict and what do I need to do?
GO AND SHOW YOUR BROTHER HIS FAULT
**How can I help others to understand how they have contributed to this conflict?
GO AND BE RECONCILED
**How can I demonstrate forgiveness and encourage a reasonable solution to this conflict?
The following checklist summarizes the principles in The Peacemakers: A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict , by Ken Sande, and is designed to help you answer these four questions.GLORIFY GOD
With God’s help, I will seek to glorify him by:
*Striving earnestly, diligently and continually to live at peace with those around me.
*Remembering that Jesus; reputation is affected by the way I get along with others.
*Guarding against Satan’s schemes and false teachings, when are designed to promote selfishness and incite conflict.
*Trusting that God is in control and working for my good and the good of others , even when I must undergo suffering.
*Giving God praise and hanks for his goodness and his help.
*Obeying God’s commands, even when doing so is difficult and requires sacrifice.
*Using conflict as an opportunity to serve others by:
**helping them to find godly solutions to their problems
**helping to bear their emotional. spiritual , or material burdens
**helping them to see where they have been wrong and need to change
**encouraging them to put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
*Teaching and encouraging them by example
*Cooperating with God as he prunes me of sinful attitudes and habits, and helps me to grow to be more like Christ.
*Seeing myself as a steward and managing myself, my resources, and my situation in such a way hat God would say “Well done, Good and faithful servant!”
GET THE LOG OUT OF YOUR EYE
To decide whether something is really worth fighting over, with God’s help I will:
Define the issues (personal and material), decide how they are related, and deal only with issues that are too important to be overlooked, beginning usually with personal issues.
*Overlook minor offenses
*Change my attitude by:
**recalling how much God has forgiven me
**being gentle toward others
**replacing anxiety with prayer and trust
**deliberately thinking about what is good and right in other
**putting into practice what God had taught me through the Bible
*Carefully consider how much it will cost (emotionally, spiritually, and financially) to continued a conflict instead of simply settling it.
*Use my rights only to advance God’s kingdom, to serve others, and to enhance my ability to serve and grow to be like Christ.
Before talking to others about their wrongs, with God’s help I will ask myself:
*Am I guilty of reckless words, falsehood, gossip, slander, or any other worthless talk?
*Have I kept my word and fulfilled all my responsibilities?
*Have I abused my authority?
*Have I respected those in authority over me?
*Have I treated others as I would want to be treated
*Am I being motivated by:
**lusts of the flesh
**pride
**love of money
**fear of others
**wanting good things too much
When I see that I have sinned, with God’s help I will:
*Repent – that is change the way I have been thinking so I turn away from my sin and turn towards God
*Confess my sin by using the using the “Seven A’s”
**address everyone involved
**avoiding: if, but, and maybe
**admitting specifically what I did wrong
**apologizing for hurting others
**accepting the consequences of my actions
**alter my behavior
**ask for forgiveness
*Change my attitudes and behavior by praying for God’s help; focusing on the Lord so I can overcome my personal idols; studying the Bible ; practicing godly character qualities in a manner that is both planned and spontaneous.
GO AND SHOW YOUR BROTHER HIS FAULT
When I learn that someone has something against me I will go to that person to talk about it, even if I don’t believe I have done anything wrong.
A sin is too serious to overlook if it:
*Is dishonoring God
*Has damaged our relationship
*Is hurting or might hurt other people
*Is hurting the offender and diminishing that person’s usefulness to God
When I need to confront others, with God’s help I will:
*Listen responsibly by waiting patiently while others speak, concentrating on what they say, clarifying their comments through appropriate questions, reflecting their feelings and concerns with paraphrases responses, and agreeing with them whenever possible.
*Choose a time and place that will be conductive to a productive conversation.
*Believe the best about others until I have facts to prove otherwise
*Talk in person whenever possible
Plan my words in advance and try to anticipate how others will respond to me.
*Use “I” statements when appropriate
*State objective facts rather that personal opinions
*Use the Bible carefully and tactfully
*Ask for feedback.
*Offer solutions and preferences
*Recognize my limits and stop talking once I have said what is reasonable and appropriate.
If I cannot resolve a dispute with someone in private, and if the matter is too serious to overlook, with God’s help I will:
*Suggest that we seek help from one or more mature advisers who can help both of us see things more objectively
*If necessary, ask one or two others to talk with us.
*If necessary seek help from our respective churches and respect their authority.
*Go to court only if I have exhausted my church remedies; if the rights I am seeking to enforce are biblically legitimate; and if my action has a righteous purpose.
GO AND BE RECONCILED
When I forgive someone, with God’s help I will make these promises
*I will no longer dwell on this incident
*I will not bring up this incident again and use it against you.
*I will not talk to others about this incident
*I will not allow this incident to stand between us or to hinder our personal relationship.
When I am having a difficult time forgiving someone, with God’s help I will:
*If necessary, talk with that person to address any unresolved issues and to confirm repentance
*Renounce the desire to punish the other person, to make that person earn my forgiveness, or to demand guarantees that I will never be wronged again.
*Asses my contributions to the problem
*Recognize the ways that God is using the situation for good
*Remember how much God has forgiven me, not only in this situation but also in the past.
*Draw on God’s strength through prayer, Bible study, and if necessary Christian counseling.
With God’s help, I will demonstrate forgiveness and practice the replacement principle by:
*Replacing painful thought and memories with positive thoughts and memories.
*Saying positive things to and about the person whom I have forgiven
*Doing loving and constructive things to and for the person whom I have forgiven
When I need to negotiate an agreement on material issues, with God’s help I will PAUSE:
*Prepare thoroughly for our discussions
*Affirm my respect and concern for my opponent
*Understand my opponent’s interests as well as my own.
*Search for creative solutions that will satisfy as many of our interests as possible
*Evaluate various options objectively and reasonably.
When other continue to mistreat or oppose me, with God’s help I will:
*Control my tongue and continue to say only what is helpful and beneficial to others.
*Seek counsel, support, and encouragement from spiritually mature advisers
*Keep doing what is right no matter what others do to me
*Recognize my limits by resisting the temptation to revenge and by remembering that being successful in God’s eyes depends on faithfulness NOT results.
*Continue to love my enemy by striving to discern and meet his or her deepest spiritual emotional, and material needs.
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mexicomaria
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Minnesota
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 8:38:09 PM
Jeremiah 31:34 (NIV)
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is this our example?
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bruce725
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 7:47:47 PM
>>>Incidentally, I do notice that Christ said to forgive, but did not command us to forget.<<<
Good point, You are absolutely right, Marty. Forgive & forget is just my habitual use of a cliche.....
But there are a number of sins which might be forgiven, but never forgotten.
Score one for you.... hahaha...
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 6:53:59 PM
"As Christians we are certainly obligated to forgive others who sin against us when they are repentant if we are to expect God to forgive us when we sin against Him. "
I read Matthew 6:14-15 as saying to forgive whether or not the other person is repentant. The act of forgiveness releases the offender, but more importantly it releases the one offended. If Christ is our example, I see no other way to do things.
Incidentally, I do notice that Christ said to forgive, but did not command us to forget.
"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." --Luke 23:34
[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 8/31/2010 6:55:21 PM EST]
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bruce725
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 5:41:19 PM
Forgiveness is a very personal thing, but we should also seek God's guidance when struggling with whether or not to forgive or not.
To take from Gman's topic, if one were never to forgive they might be a indifferent, embittered, anxious, short-tempered, hard-hearted, mean, lacking self-control individual. Wow, what an ugly combination.
As Christians we are certainly obligated to forgive others who sin against us when they are repentant if we are to expect God to forgive us when we sin against Him.
"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." - Matthew 6:14–15 (NIV)
This holds true even if someone sins against us repeatedly... see Gman's Bible reference in his topic heading.
However, this does not give us license to withhold forgiveness in the same way. The key to remember is this: God can judge a person’s intentions because He knows what’s in a person’s heart, whereas we don't.
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." - 1 Samuel 16:7 (NIV)
We are not God. We are not the Judge. For us to play God by refusing to offer forgiveness is an act of judgment on our part, and Jesus tells us that God will judge us according to the way we’ve judged others
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:2 (NIV)
So, if there is a way for you, as a Christian, to forgive & forget, and move forward, you own it to yourself and to God.
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Guitar_Man
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 5:00:35 PM
Yes, it's amazing what Christians are able to forgive with the power of the Lord working inside of us.
When I lived in West Texas, I played guitar but also preached in our little nursing home ministry. It was interesting to witness those that were in their twilight years who had been believers their whole lives compared to those who didn't...almost like looking at night and day.
Without the Lord, bitterness and hatred and anger can overwhelm us and change us into completely different people. (People who nobody wants to be around.) It's very sad.
Jesus said "I came to give you life, and life more abundant" and I believe walking in His grace and mercy (not only for ourselves but for others) is part of what He meant.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 4:48:10 PM
Her victory lay in her yielding to Christ--obeying His command to forgive. In the act of reaching out to shake the man's hand, Christ enabled her to forgive the guard in the truest sense of the word. She fully admits that her ability to forgive was not at all the result of her own effort or ability.
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Guitar_Man
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 4:13:56 PM
Yes, Corrie was an amazing Christian!
I watch watching a documentary about the nazi concentration camps and they had one of the survivors. They asked her if she was able to forgive the Germans and the look on her face was so sad to see. She said that if you could open up her chest and lick her heart you'd die of poison...that's how bad her bitterness and hatred was. It made me want to cry.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 12:32:18 PM
Corrie ten Boom wrote a wonderful book entitled "Tramp for the Lord." One of her chapters is called "Love Your Enemy" and addresses this very issue.
The link below will take you to a page at Amazon.com where you can read this chapter. Click on "Search Inside this Book" and scroll to (or search for) page 53.
The story details an encounter she had with a Ravensbruk camp guard who had repented and become Christian after the war. Corrie lost her entire family at Ravensbruk and was faced with the reality of Christ's command to forgive.
Tramp for the Lord - scroll to page 53
[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 8/31/2010 12:32:56 PM EST]
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erbyfub
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 11:40:38 AM
Right after what you quoted in Matthew 18 is an incredible story:
Mat 18:23-35 "Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.
But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.'
So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt.
When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?'
And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt.
So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."
One of my commentaries says that 10,000 talents is about $12,000,000, and since it's a public-domain commentary it was probably written several decades ago. That's an incredibly large sum for a servant to owe, and it's all forgiven. Then the man goes and demands an amount equivalent to 100 days' labor, less than a millionth of his own debt. It's no wonder the master was angry. If God has forgiven us so much, how can we do less than a millionth as much?
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mamaberyl
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 7:50:08 AM
I can't wait to post in this. Just don't have time right now.
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Bill100
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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 6:13:41 AM
I agree, GM. Interestly, every part of the fruit of the Spirit is totally displaced, not merely co-existing with the good fruit. They cannot co-exist in the same space together. Good fruit and bad fruit CANNOT come from the same vine, for they have nothing in common.
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